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CCC Announcement: Age Limit

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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Kitten Slave. 15/08/10, 03:27 pm

mm, well, I think Jess did a bit more clearing up than I did
Razz

But cheah, Aucks is more like a group of friends who occasionally hang out randomly, so I dont think they mind me too much.
I also try and use my common sense more, I pay attention (sometimes), if I think people are uncomfortable with me, I alter things to accommodate for them.

And I am pretty childish myself, so I fit in somewhat.

whee
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Guest. 15/08/10, 03:32 pm

All I'm going to say is I'm pretty sure my mother would be pretty concerned if I was going to cosplay meets where people over 30 would be attending. She got concerned when I was going to cosplay meets with 20 year olds.

So yeah, I think, for a second maybe think of it from the viewpoint of a parents. IDEK. SOZ GAIZ.

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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Highlander. 15/08/10, 03:37 pm

Riven_ wrote:

18+ events?
CCC was not formed with 18+ events in mind, and therefore none will be run by us. Once again, if you wish to run one, feel free to organise it over the PM system.

RE: the age 30?
There's no significant reason for the age. We needed a nice round number, and so we went with it The reason we didn't just put an age limit on at the start? We didn't think we'd need one. Being young and foolish, Ange and I took up the idea of the CCC and went THIS COULD BE FUN. Two years later we're here and doing the best we can.

Thanks for the clarification. I still think the limit is too high for comfort, if thats what you are looking for.
And it does sound like there are a large amount of people potentially keen for an 18+ alternative, so I will work on something outside of CNZ when I have the time I guess. And of course will still organise my events in the user forum, and who ever wants to can come and have fun.

JVCA wrote:
@Highlander: CCC ≠ CNZ.

CNZ cannot hold any responsibility over what happens in a real life setting.

The CCC is a real life thing; CNZ is a place on the internet.

Highlander, I can state for a fact that this was not just about you. If it was just about you, they would have spoken to you directly, so please stop making assumptions and putting words into their mouths; it is unfair of you to do so, just as it was unfair of Lavi to do so (hence why I deleted his post).

Thanks for the clarification JVCA.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Olli. 15/08/10, 03:41 pm

I am not sure what I think about the age limit.

What I see is that this is a club, and in any club there will be older people attending.

I don't think that it's very fair on the people over the age of 29 that they can't go to the monthly events just because they are older. If they can take on a supervising role then it shouldn't be a problem. So just talking to them privately or something could make the world of difference.

And does this count for the Christchurch Cosplay Ball?
I know it's classed as a monthly event but I am really not comfortable with putting an age limit on it at all.
I just think that everyone has the right to cosplay and enjoy themselves.

I do understand where the parents are coming from though. I've sometimes felt really uncomfortable around people who are older and worried about how the younger ones may feel around them.
Could the parents meet the older members at events when they drop their kids off?
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Riven_. 15/08/10, 03:47 pm

As a CCC event, the ball would include the age limit, but as I said in the very first post:

Riven_ wrote:
If you have a query or are over 30 and want to attend an event, feel free to PM a CCC-mod/the organiser.

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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Highlander. 15/08/10, 04:13 pm

[quote="Bartzluver"]
I agree with the ageism point Highlander,
Just for clarification I was quoting JVCA there.

It's not really spitting up CCC completely. From what Kitten Slave has explained

It is nothing to do with Kitten, it's the CCC and it's leaders. It is a complete ban from all official CCC events, effectively a total exclusion from CCC membership.

Kitten Slave wrote:

I also try and use my common sense more, I pay attention (sometimes), if I think people are uncomfortable with me, I alter things to accommodate for them.
And I am pretty childish myself, so I fit in somewhat.

The childish thing also applies to us too! I mean as kids we always dreamed of this, but it was not around in our day, so I guess I am making up for that. But try telling that to a parent?
Kitten I honestly think that I have put a lot of effort into befriending a lot of young people. But again try telling a parent I do that! Of course the CCC has grown a lot lately. So I don't know who half the people are, or what their age is, it's hard to tell sometimes. But from what I see the newcomers are very enthusiastic, and many go out of there way to involve me.
I have been always amazed by the how quickly and openly people have accepted me. I would have more caution as a parent, and I hope as a teen. But then these are structured supervised events, which kinda negates any fears I would have.

Riven_ wrote:
As a CCC event, the ball would include the age limit, but as I said in the very first post:

Riven_ wrote:
If you have a query or are over 30 and want to attend an event, feel free to PM a CCC-mod/the organiser.

Hang on Riven. I queried your first post. You then said that you were talking about user events, not club events. So now you are saying that there is an over 30 limit on club events, but if someone PM's you or an event organizer they might get let back in for the event. (Which I would think results in what you are trying to avoid?) Confused again.


Last edited by Highlander on 15/08/10, 04:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Guest. 15/08/10, 04:23 pm

Olli wrote:
I am not sure what I think about the age limit.

What I see is that this is a club, and in any club there will be older people attending.

I don't think that it's very fair on the people over the age of 29 that they can't go to the monthly events just because they are older. If they can take on a supervising role then it shouldn't be a problem. So just talking to them privately or something could make the world of difference.

And does this count for the Christchurch Cosplay Ball?
I know it's classed as a monthly event but I am really not comfortable with putting an age limit on it at all.
I just think that everyone has the right to cosplay and enjoy themselves.

I do understand where the parents are coming from though. I've sometimes felt really uncomfortable around people who are older and worried about how the younger ones may feel around them.
Could the parents meet the older members at events when they drop their kids off?

I think this wraps up everything I was trying to get across before and agree with the parents if they have a issue with older members that they should have a personal meetings with the organizers parents. There is no age limit on cosplay.
@ Highlander It may not be about Kitten but I do agree with him about the parents, but after what Olli has written a parent meeting before the event would be better matched rather than just judging by age.

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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By RainbowMoonDust. 15/08/10, 04:24 pm

I can not even begin to convey just how upset I am over this, as I see this as discrimination. I understand that parents may have their concerns and the Mods too and I know that the Mods are trying to take these things into account. But I feel this is going too far and is unfair to the older members, I think that a ban is too harsh and that better approaches could be made.

@Anne: For clarification, you say that overs 30's can not attend the Chch Cosplay events, this means the events in this subforum right? Not the user run events under the Chch Cosplayers forum? If older members do want to go to the CCC events (Under this section), they may be able to go if they get permission from you, Angie, or the person running them? Just checking out of curiosity.

I could say a lot more but it wouldn't be a good idea considering the state I am in now, I just wanted to say my piece and clear a few things up.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By sakura_petals. 15/08/10, 10:33 pm

I for one completely understand where the CCC leaders are coming from and I'm almost at the cut off limit as well. You just need to see it from parent's POV really. I know that if I had a kid/teen wanting to attend events with people in the higher age range I'd be a bit cautious as well. It's the same with any event really - if you're not sure if it's appropriate for you attend then just pm the person running it or in charge.

This is meant to be a club for people to have fun in a safe way - and in some cases this might mean taking the thoughts and worries of the parents of the younger attendees into consideration.

Also understand where the others are coming from with their worries. Being the age that you are doesn't mean you're turning into some sort of monster but it does give people interesting thoughts/ideas when they hear of older people attending events mainly filled with teenagers/tweens.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By seraphik. 16/08/10, 12:40 am

Bartzluver wrote:
Olli wrote:
I am not sure what I think about the age limit.

What I see is that this is a club, and in any club there will be older people attending.

I don't think that it's very fair on the people over the age of 29 that they can't go to the monthly events just because they are older. If they can take on a supervising role then it shouldn't be a problem. So just talking to them privately or something could make the world of difference.

And does this count for the Christchurch Cosplay Ball?
I know it's classed as a monthly event but I am really not comfortable with putting an age limit on it at all.
I just think that everyone has the right to cosplay and enjoy themselves.

I do understand where the parents are coming from though. I've sometimes felt really uncomfortable around people who are older and worried about how the younger ones may feel around them.
Could the parents meet the older members at events when they drop their kids off?

I think this wraps up everything I was trying to get across before and agree with the parents if they have a issue with older members that they should have a personal meetings with the organizers parents. There is no age limit on cosplay.
@ Highlander It may not be about Kitten but I do agree with him about the parents, but after what Olli has written a parent meeting before the event would be better matched rather than just judging by age.

but the point has been stated several times that CCC =/= cosplay as a whole. the CCC, as JVCA said earlier, is only a club and not the be all end all of cosplay-- i'm sure if the demand was there for them, which there would be 'cause you guys are awesome and enthusiastic, there would be events that developed to cater for the older age range. like the CCC forming-- the club originally came together because of a demand for cosplay events for young people.

as jess also said, i'm not one of the CCC leaders and so i can't give a great deal of insight into the situation, but this is what i'm perceiving.

what about starting a senior club, from like 20+? you guys could get together and do your own thing without worrying about the age range, and if ange/anne approve it, maybe every once in a while you guys could combine with the CCC to do events and compete against each other or something.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Pyro. 16/08/10, 01:50 am

While I have nothing to say about the entire concept that hasn't been said yet, might I make a suggestion that the age limit only comes in place after the ball? From Olli's post on the last page, it looks like she was unaware of the limit before now, and as she's organizing it I think it's unfair to just say 'oh the ball has an age limit now btw' like... a week beforehand.

It's just that considering it's Olli's thing, I think that's a little rude to suddenly drop it on her. ^^;;
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By jpwise. 16/08/10, 02:47 am

Same as the other mods, I can't speak on Ange or Mandies behalf, but the age brackets thing has been raised numerous times in the past - including the recent R18 section request, which I mentioned couldn't really be done short of carding people at the door so to say.

As one of the SPCC committee members, I can however appreciate their position. The SPCC doesn't have regular meetings and is an open age society, so it doesn't have the same problems as a club that meets regularly. That said, anyone that organises these types of things has HUGE amounts of work to do, and I'm honestly in awe of how well Ange & Mandie do with keeping the CCC stuff going. Dealing with trying to organise an event is one thing, let alone having to deal with members, and their parents concerns on top of everything else, sometimes it's just not practical.

I also think a lot of people don't realise just how much work goes into organising events, when i say HUGE. The SPCC (5+ people) took several months to organise the Wellington Cosplay Ball (WCB). Duckeh+helpers organised the Auckland Cosplay Ball (ACB), and looked like she was ready to have a meltdown by the end of it. Madja organised the Wellington Cosplay Picnic. Tintango organised the Murder Mystery Dinner, and so on. Organising events, dealing with other companies - councils, hire companies, dj's, catering, paying bonds, deposits, and even just making sure everything is delivered on the day. The big events obviously take a massive amount of work, but doing smaller events on a regular basis is equally difficult, if not more so.

I'm also in the 30+ age bracket if people hadn't noticed, but it's always something I've been aware of. This also affects me if I head down to ChCh for any of the events, but I also respect Ange and Mandies reasons, so if I PM'd them and they asked me not to attend I'd respect that. As the organisers of the CCC, the club is their prerogative, and they'll do what they think is best for it.

So yeah, it affects me too, but I can respect their reasons for doing so.

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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Pura. 16/08/10, 03:01 am

Pyro wrote:
While I have nothing to say about the entire concept that hasn't been said yet, might I make a suggestion that the age limit only comes in place after the ball? From Olli's post on the last page, it looks like she was unaware of the limit before now, and as she's organizing it I think it's unfair to just say 'oh the ball has an age limit now btw' like... a week beforehand.

It's just that considering it's Olli's thing, I think that's a little rude to suddenly drop it on her. ^^;;

I agree with this - You should make the 30 age limit after the ball. It's just fair. Emma and Highlander have probably been preparing for the ball, and a week before all of a sudden they're told they aren't allowed to attend.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Riven_. 16/08/10, 03:12 am

@Pura/Pyro

I'll requote myself one last time.
Riven_ wrote:
If you have a query or are over 30 and want to attend an event, feel free to PM a CCC-mod/the organiser.
Seeing as Olli most likely has no problem with either of them attending, I'd say it's fine.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Olli. 16/08/10, 03:27 am

I really have no problem with them attending the ball

I think that this should of been mentioned to the majority of the club, not just between the mods. It was dropped really fast on everyone. I know that I am still far away from being 30 but I am friends with both Emma and Glenn and I don't think it's fair on them that this was just dropped on them.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Highlander. 16/08/10, 04:11 am

seraphik wrote:

what about starting a senior club, from like 20+? you guys could get together and do your own thing without worrying about the age range, and if ange/anne approve it, maybe every once in a while you guys could combine with the CCC to do events and compete against each other or something.

I think many of the 18+'s don't attend regularly anyway. I think many of them have talked about this privately. But I am talking to people now about if there is enough interest.

But note that me, and a lot of the 18+ age group are friendly with people from say 13 up, and it would be sad to loose those relationships. Although most of them can attend the CCC until 30 anyway.

Also note the other problems with people in this age group. Like the fact that many are busy with Uni. Many have jobs at odd hours, etc. As JP noted it is an effort to organize events. And lots of 18+ people would rather just hang with their friends. If they are unemployed as are some, or living on student loan, as some are, then money for cosplay is very restricted. On the other hand it may be possible to do stuff which costs money. The tendency I feel is for them to just fall into groups of friends who socialize together rather than make the effort to organise larger groups. Having said that KAOS or the UCMRS would be a good example of clubs that do happen.

So I envision maybe a quite more relaxed version than the CCC, no hall, probably no games, not much themes. Just do people want to meet in August, do they want a social or a cosplay meet. Social? Well then do you want to play games, or watch movies, or eat pizza, or go to karaoke, or? So where do we meet.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Riven_. 16/08/10, 04:26 am

Highlander, what you're describing in the last part of your post is pretty much exactly the same as what all the non-CCC events are.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Highlander. 16/08/10, 04:39 am

Riven_ wrote:
Highlander, what you're describing in the last part of your post is pretty much exactly the same as what all the non-CCC events are.

Except that will we run into issues with the CNZ PG-13 rules. I mean excluding younger people, and very obviously allowing alcohol, allowing screenings of horrors or anime with over PG-13 ratings, etc? I mean while I don't want to see these as drinking events, if you are going to target it at over 18's then it going to be hard to say you can't have a couple of beers with dinner!

Also you guys are allowed your club-subforum within the christchurch forum. Are we allowed one. You guys are allowed to put an age restriction on that sub-forum. Are we? The idea has been shot down in the past. I mean it's not like the discussions are going to be non-PG-13 anyway. Or that we expect that under 18's can't read them, any more than over 30's can't read the CCC pages, or CSI people the NCIS pages.

Otherwise all you are saying is that you guys are allowed a club, and we aren't. Or at least not on CNZ.

Although I think off CNZ may possibly be better anyway, as in an adult group free of mods.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Riven_. 16/08/10, 04:49 am

I cannot change CNZ's rules, and as such all I can suggest is that if you want to organise something for 18+s you do it through PMs or via cell or something.

However, this is nothing new and has always been the case on the CNZ forums. If you want to discuss the issues surrounding 18+ events feel free to make another thread in the rants/discussion subforum.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Highlander. 16/08/10, 04:56 am

Riven_ wrote:
I cannot change CNZ's rules, and as such all I can suggest is that if you want to organise something for 18+s you do it through PMs or via cell or something.

However, this is nothing new and has always been the case on the CNZ forums. If you want to discuss the issues surrounding 18+ events feel free to make another thread in the rants/discussion subforum.

My point exactly. We will discuss this amongst ourselves and decide if/what to do.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Ze Pervy Kappa. 16/08/10, 04:57 am

I do not want to start a fight over this, I merely want to state my opinion. To be honest I am slightly disturbed be this. I hate to admit it but the cosplay club is starting to get very viscous. Hyde who is 1 year old joins in some of the fun and I have never had any issues with people who are over 30.. They are helpful and they deal with issues like adults. Is it wrong for them to be there to help? If parents are really concerned then why do they not come and see what we are all about? Why not see how fun it is. Age differences should not count. We all like the same things. I want people to have fun and to not feel excluded.. I remember someone saying that to me once. "We do not want to exclude anyone" but aren't you doing that now...??

Just because they are slightly older does not mean they deserve to be mistreated.. I do not like it. Mainly because two of my friends are over thirty here..

One question, what will happen in 5 years time? Half the mods here will soon hit in the twenties or even thirties.. and what happens then? Do they get booted out too?, What is the difference between a twenty year old and a thirty year old? Apart from age there is nothing.. if the people over thirty were really going to do bad things.. wouldn't they have already done it? I think people are just being... silly and judgemental.. but that is my opinion.

I'm sorry Highlander and RainbowMoondust.. sad
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Riven_. 16/08/10, 05:12 am

Can I direct to you my very first post where I explain that this rule should have been in place ONLY ON CCC EVENTS from day one, because that was the original intention of the club. It's only because we didn't and never expected to need to put an age limit on that this is an issue in the first place.
We realise that because of our inaction re: older people attending official club events that it is we mods/organisers' fault if it seems like people are being 'mistreated'. That is not the intention here at all.

And I will quote again, because people seem intent on not reading this part:
Quote :
If you have a query or are over 30 and want to attend an event, feel free to PM a CCC-mod/the organiser.

Once again, can I direct you to post (on the second page) where I explain why we picked the age 30.

In five years time? I don't plan to still be running the CCC. Other, younger members will be able to step up and take over.
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Ze Pervy Kappa. 16/08/10, 05:18 am

This kind of treatment is making me want to leave this forum..
I saw that they can attend if the organizer said it is okay.. but this is ridiculous.. A thirteen year old asks for permission, not a 30 year old. D;

Why ask people to message you when this is a discussion thread...
I am appalled at this club for not talking to us about it. It feels like we get no say, like we are not important enough and the parents with the issues or whoever it is overall us all.. :/
None of you asked us how it would effect us and it got dropped on us like this?
You may have spoken to people about wanting to do this for some time... but this is the first time I have heard about it..

I'm sorry but this really offended me.
Ze Pervy Kappa
Ze Pervy Kappa
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Mandie_Chan. 16/08/10, 05:20 am

I can't stop looking at your sig Riven

Just to clear a few things up, just want to say that this doesn't effect Sunday nights and the sewing lessons. They are NOT official CCC meets, they just have CCC members come along~




Last edited by Mandie_Chan on 16/08/10, 05:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Mandie_Chan
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Re: CCC Announcement: Age Limit
Post By Kitten Slave. 16/08/10, 05:21 am

Meh, I dislike getting involved in events that dont really concern me, but like I said, its a parental thing.

I mean, the aucks crowd are generally a bit more unconstrained with regards to parents - lets face it, duckehs mom didnt even blink when she saw my outfit at the ball, and duckehs bf is a cross dressing furry, so I can see how she might be somewhat unconcerned.

That said, if you were a parent, and your sweet little 13yo Gretchen were going to a gathering that is already somewhat strange by most peoples standards, you might be somewhat concerned about the presence of older males.
So sure, the whole situation is quite understandable. Im sure you are all friends, no one has done anything disreputable, you are all nice people, etc etc, but with this whole thing in what Im guessing is a slightly more "conservative" environment that seems to be Chch you cant exactly get all worked up by the situation.

You dont have to suddenly divide the forum, or have your own special little sections or anything. This would not actually achieve anything, and I dont think the mods would be fore it anyway. Nor do the older ones suddenly have to have special drinking events to spite the turn of events or whatever.
Chances are, your lives will all continue much as before, but everyone seems to be feeling a bit tender that this has been sprung on everyone very suddenly before a larger event.

Calm your selves folk, and think about what it is you all actually want from this and how you are going about it. You are letting your passion dominate your reason atm.

nodnod
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