Intro and Cosplay Casting Call

By Highlander. 07/06/10, 01:42 pm

umbraphotography wrote:: but I was wondering what the camera rules are for Armageddon... because believe it or not... I don't OWN a non-bulky-non-SLR camera, except my DLR medium format camera, and the one on my phone... I'm really shy so not uber comfortable approaching people for photos haha!

We haven't got a student union;
There's nothing we can do now but do the work, hand it in, file a complaint, and make damn sure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again. As soon as it appears to happen again, I'm going to report it because the stress of this has given me panic attacks and ruined my idea of going to Armageddon.

I'm happy to still do everyone's photos, and now, they will still have to be done after the 20th of June, but there's no like... end-date. Anytime after then will be fine just let me know when and where.

Um, well I guess you can only complain to the Head of Department/Faculty, and from there they will have a complaints proceedure and a academic board that judges complaints. This is how public stuff uni's are set up. But private or not, if they call themselves a uni they will have to do things similar. And you can always complain to the Ministry of Education. Not sure how much luck you will have. (You must also be able to join the national students association. I think it's your legal right to do so.)

As for photos. I don't think they have any policy. It's a public space. They may get antsy if you go to the photo session and ninja free photos of the big stars? As for now that cosplayers know you, via here, then you can just introduce yourself and ask them for photos. They expect that, and it gives them the option of refusing. I have only had one refusal. Just be considerate, indicate what you want, eg. a character pose, etc. Also stalk the Auckgeddon thread, and you will find out the officail and unoffical cosplay events. They are good times for photo taking obviously, and before/after too.
Just remember there are cosplayers who are not on CNZ, or may not have heard of CNZ.

Um, tatics: JP stalks the venue taking candids; I stalk the venue, but generally ask for shots now, (my best are still candids;) Lilap is employed by bill, so interviews, videos and photographs everything; and static meets people outside the venue for booked photo sessions. But then she gets to do very little of the geddon stuff because of this. Here is one of her threads.
http://forum.cosplay.co.nz/wellygeddon-f9/cosplay-book-wellington-shoot-bookings-t6774.htm
Obviously I am not suggesting you follow her method exactly. But the basics are to book people in for a time, a location, and shoot them.

Um, of course since you are not being paid I suggest you do what you want and work around whatever else you want to do. And it is great social experience really, and people fit in really quickly.

You could of course talk to Static and Lilapmedia if you have any questions.

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 09:22 am

Highlander wrote:

umbraphotography wrote:: but I was wondering what the camera rules are for Armageddon... because believe it or not... I don't OWN a non-bulky-non-SLR camera, except my DLR medium format camera, and the one on my phone... I'm really shy so not uber comfortable approaching people for photos haha!

We haven't got a student union;
There's nothing we can do now but do the work, hand it in, file a complaint, and make damn sure that this sort of thing doesn't happen again. As soon as it appears to happen again, I'm going to report it because the stress of this has given me panic attacks and ruined my idea of going to Armageddon.

I'm happy to still do everyone's photos, and now, they will still have to be done after the 20th of June, but there's no like... end-date. Anytime after then will be fine just let me know when and where.

Um, well I guess you can only complain to the Head of Department/Faculty, and from there they will have a complaints proceedure and a academic board that judges complaints. This is how public stuff uni's are set up. But private or not, if they call themselves a uni they will have to do things similar. And you can always complain to the Ministry of Education. Not sure how much luck you will have. (You must also be able to join the national students association. I think it's your legal right to do so.)

As for photos. I don't think they have any policy. It's a public space. They may get antsy if you go to the photo session and ninja free photos of the big stars? As for now that cosplayers know you, via here, then you can just introduce yourself and ask them for photos. They expect that, and it gives them the option of refusing. I have only had one refusal. Just be considerate, indicate what you want, eg. a character pose, etc. Also stalk the Auckgeddon thread, and you will find out the officail and unoffical cosplay events. They are good times for photo taking obviously, and before/after too.
Just remember there are cosplayers who are not on CNZ, or may not have heard of CNZ.

Um, tatics: JP stalks the venue taking candids; I stalk the venue, but generally ask for shots now, (my best are still candids;) Lilap is employed by bill, so interviews, videos and photographs everything; and static meets people outside the venue for booked photo sessions. But then she gets to do very little of the geddon stuff because of this. Here is one of her threads.
http://forum.cosplay.co.nz/wellygeddon-f9/cosplay-book-wellington-shoot-bookings-t6774.htm
Obviously I am not suggesting you follow her method exactly. But the basics are to book people in for a time, a location, and shoot them.

Um, of course since you are not being paid I suggest you do what you want and work around whatever else you want to do. And it is great social experience really, and people fit in really quickly.

You could of course talk to Static and Lilapmedia if you have any questions.

Yeah, I complained to my senior lecturer, a bit on accident. She approached me about something else I'd asked her help on, and she was looking at me strangely and like "what's wrong?" and I was actually half way through having a rather discreet panic attack, so I told her what was wrong, and managed to get the deadline moved forward 3 days haha. I emailed someone about complaining and they basically told me to look in the student handbook to find the correct procedure, of which I don't have a copy of or time to read due to mid-year. When I went to get my photos printed I had to explain to them what had happened, and the other girl behind the counter was like oh I went there, I had a similar thing happen to me. And so now I'm not very confident it won't happen again.

I emailed the Armageddon guy to tell him I wasn't going to be able to have a stall, but he said he'd be happy for me to be an official photographer so long as they get copies of the photos to use in events promotions which I'm happy with. I'm in it more for the experience, for my portfolio and other assignment, and I already had tickets for the 3 days as soon as I felt I really couldn't afford a stall. Some cons have issues with flash photography. I talked to someone on Model Mayhem who did Armageddon last year (I don't think he asked) and he'd done a couple of other cons and said one had issues with flash photography. It'd be ok though, I will ask, but if needbe I'm fine not to use flash.

I guess I thought I'd just walk around taking photos and asking people if it'd be ok for a photo, along with handing out cards. If anyone sees me, feel free to come say hi Razz

By Suixelo. 12/06/10, 12:20 pm

If you're an official photographer you don't need tickets =P They get in free. Tonnes of photographers with DSLR/SLR cameras bring them and aren't official, they pay entry. Like Static for example, and Tammy. My camera is a DSLR training model, so while it isn't a DSLR it isn't a point and shoot either. I have had no issues with taking photos at the con, flash or no flash and I don't think anyone else has either.

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 01:59 pm

Suixelo wrote:: If you're an official photographer you don't need tickets =P They get in free. Tonnes of photographers with DSLR/SLR cameras bring them and aren't official, they pay entry. Like Static for example, and Tammy. My camera is a DSLR training model, so while it isn't a DSLR it isn't a point and shoot either. I have had no issues with taking photos at the con, flash or no flash and I don't think anyone else has either.

I bought my tickets about a week before I became an official photographer, hence me saying that I "already" had tickets for the 3 days. I also don't want to be obliged to take photos because I kind of want to look around, too.

I will still ask Bill about flash as I'd like to take a remote flash unit if it's ok. If not, I just won't bother with flash at all. I don't think anyone's had issues with flash at Armageddon, but I've spoken to a photographer who's done a similar con and has had issues with security getting annoyed (he's done Armageddon, too).

By Suixelo. 12/06/10, 02:04 pm

lol okay you are contradicting yourself there XP If you are official, you will be obliged because you are paid. You can sell your tickets, is what I was getting at, to raise more money.

The venue security can be really stupid =/ But I suppose they're doing their job haha.

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 02:11 pm

Suixelo wrote:: lol okay you are contradicting yourself there XP If you are official, you will be obliged because you are paid. You can sell your tickets, is what I was getting at, to raise more money.

The venue security can be really stupid =/ But I suppose they're doing their job haha.

No, I'm not being paid at all, and I won't be obliged because of that. I am labelled as an "official photographer" though.
I also have to give my photos to them after the event, which I'm ok with.
I don't really see the problem in flash photography, but I know loads of people do, so I'm always prepared for that.

By Suixelo. 12/06/10, 02:16 pm

Oh ok, I must have misunderstood what I was told, there are probably differences or something ^^

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 02:17 pm

Suixelo wrote:: Oh ok, I must have misunderstood what I was told, there are probably differences or something ^^

Well, the difference between me and someone who just goes and takes photos is that I emailed and ASKED, and he said he'd be happy for me to be an official photographer as long as they get copies for promotional stuff.

By Suixelo. 12/06/10, 02:19 pm

No, I meant about official photographers. I was told they are all paid, but I think that person probably meant paid by free entry or something.

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 02:23 pm

Suixelo wrote:: No, I meant about official photographers. I was told they are all paid, but I think that person probably meant paid by free entry or something.

Oh. Not necessarily. My payment could be the experience of going to Armageddon and being officially allowed to take photos there, and having them for my portfolio.

It's like my photo shoots I want to do. I'm not prepared to pay in money as I can't afford it, but I'm prepared to pay in time, skill and photos, which is perfectly legitimate in the professional photography and modelling world, especially if you're just starting out and building a portfolio.

I'm just privileged that I'm able to take photos there, to be honest. Even if others get tickets, don't ask and take photos, I'll hopefully have less potential issues.

By Suixelo. 12/06/10, 02:31 pm

Totally get what you mean ^^ I just misunderstood.

In the cosplay world, cosplay photographers usually charge a fee for photoshoots haha, so you shouldn't worry about not paying cosplayers for them =P I don't think any of us would expect it at all!

Just a heads up that nearly everyone brings a camera and I have not heard of anyone having any issues. I'm getting the feeling you expect there to be rules in place or something XD It's public area, so anyone is authorised to take photos and publish them in any way they'd like to.

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 03:12 pm

Suixelo wrote:: Totally get what you mean ^^ I just misunderstood.

In the cosplay world, cosplay photographers usually charge a fee for photoshoots haha, so you shouldn't worry about not paying cosplayers for them =P I don't think any of us would expect it at all!

Just a heads up that nearly everyone brings a camera and I have not heard of anyone having any issues. I'm getting the feeling you expect there to be rules in place or something XD It's public area, so anyone is authorised to take photos and publish them in any way they'd like to.

Lol yeah, I've never done any cosplay shoots so I kind of expected some to expect payment in money like a lot of models do. I mean, they're putting themselves out there in a similar way.

I know everyone brings cameras to Armageddon. That doesn't mean it's right, and just because no one has had issues before, doesn't mean I won't be one of the few who does. Just because it's a public place, doesn't mean there won't be rules and regulations around who to photograph, whether to photograph, and how. I've had issues with this in public places before. Plus, if you take people's photos, you can't readily use them for commercial gain without permission, whether they were taken in a public place or not. I mean, I can't, but they can because it's a condition of entry pretty much. I can put them on the net though.

By Mischa. 12/06/10, 03:20 pm

umbraphotography wrote:: I know everyone brings cameras to Armageddon. That doesn't mean it's right.

I'm curious as to why this would be a problem? It's a pop culture expo, not a gallery full of Renaissance paintings or nuclear sub blueprints. I think it would suck balls if only official photographers were allowed shots.

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 03:25 pm

Mischa wrote:

umbraphotography wrote:: I know everyone brings cameras to Armageddon. That doesn't mean it's right.

I'm curious as to why this would be a problem? It's a pop culture expo, not a gallery full of Renaissance paintings. I'm certainly not offended by someone taking my picture.

It's not the people who go to Armageddon I'm worried about, it's the security and organisers. I'm not saying it's morally wrong or that the people paying to be there will necessarily be pissed off, I'm just saying the organisers might get annoyed. It's perfectly feasible as I've had issues before, it's not like I just woke up and decided hey, I'm going to take photos... I've been doing it a while. I've not had issues with Armageddon (I've never taken my camera to it because of my worries), but with other public events (and non-events). I still haven't been told by them how they will know I've asked to take photos there.

The reason why I'm so worried, is a) as I've said a few times, I've had issues before, and b) I don't really cope very well with being told not to do something I'm currently doing.

By Static. 12/06/10, 03:30 pm

umbraphotography wrote:: Plus, if you take people's photos, you can't readily use them for commercial gain without permission, whether they were taken in a public place or not.

Uh, if it's a public place you can do whatever you like with the images. The only time you run into legal issues are if it's a "sensitive" area, such as a hospital or a business. I'm not 100% on Armageddon, as it is a public area, but it's also an area accessible only by paying an entry fee. But yeah - legal precedent says if it's a public space and your photo gets taken, too bad - photographer owns your image. There are numerous examples of this overseas, and I'm sure in NZ too. Ethically speaking, if the subjects are underage, you should probably go to some effort in getting parental consent, but I'm not sure you legally have to.

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 03:37 pm

Static wrote:

umbraphotography wrote:: Plus, if you take people's photos, you can't readily use them for commercial gain without permission, whether they were taken in a public place or not.

Uh, if it's a public place you can do whatever you like with the images. The only time you run into legal issues are if it's a "sensitive" area, such as a hospital or a business. I'm not 100% on Armageddon, as it is a public area, but it's also an area accessible only by paying an entry fee. But yeah - legal precedent says if it's a public space and your photo gets taken, too bad - photographer owns your image. There are numerous examples of this overseas, and I'm sure in NZ too. Ethically speaking, if the subjects are underage, you should probably go to some effort in getting parental consent, but I'm not sure you legally have to.

I thought you just couldn't use them to make money, but you could like, put them on the net or in a gallery or whatever. We kind of covered this at uni. Lucky we're not in Germany. You need a release to take people's photos in a public place even. I'm asking Bill about it though, just in case... better to be safe than sorry, but obviously having to get everyone to sign forms is very impractical... by the time they do, I would have missed a dozen great shots. I know about artists who have set up infrared flash photography set-ups in times square (no idea of his name because I didn't like his work) and then put the photos in a gallery and that's ok. I don't know if he sold them though.

By Static. 12/06/10, 03:47 pm

You can still make money off it - I studied it at Uni too :) The specific case study we looked at was the diCorcia Times Square portraits, I'm trying to dig up some info on it now - this is an article on it: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/battle-over-heads-photo-goes-to-court/

In this case there's a bit of tension because it is a portrait, and the background is unidentifiable. I'm about 90% sure the photographer came out on top in this case, but I can't find a concrete outcome at the moment (and this was in my third year, so I can't find the damn handout we got!)

But yes. Public space, no privacy, take the image and do what you want! And if you're worried about how people will react to your camera, just have a quick look into what your rights actually are. You don't have to leave just because someone asks you to if you're still within your rights.

By **JVCA**. 12/06/10, 03:53 pm

Generally Bill (the organiser) only ever gets antsy about people with cameras when people are taking photos of themselves with the guests - and that's because 'getting photos with the guests' is one of the things they charge for, so they lose money if you do a DIY shot instead of getting an official paid one. Otherwise I've never seen any of the Armageddon staff care in the three years I've been going.

By **jpwise**. 12/06/10, 03:55 pm

More info on the case that Static mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nussenzweig_v._DiCorcia

By Static. 12/06/10, 03:59 pm

...aaaand wiki had the answer all along Razz

Ta Jp!

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 04:01 pm

Static wrote:: You can still make money off it - I studied it at Uni too :) The specific case study we looked at was the diCorcia Times Square portraits, I'm trying to dig up some info on it now - this is an article on it: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/battle-over-heads-photo-goes-to-court/

In this case there's a bit of tension because it is a portrait, and the background is unidentifiable. I'm about 90% sure the photographer came out on top in this case, but I can't find a concrete outcome at the moment (and this was in my third year, so I can't find the damn handout we got!)

But yes. Public space, no privacy, take the image and do what you want! And if you're worried about how people will react to your camera, just have a quick look into what your rights actually are. You don't have to leave just because someone asks you to if you're still within your rights.

I think that was the guy's name. Philip-Lorca diCorcia? Yup. This is the image we got shown http://images.artnet.com/artwork_images_424038914_493712_philip-lorca-dicorcia.jpg

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he won (that's what we were told anyway) because I remember most of the class being amazed, and then 1 asking if we had infrared sensors so he could basically do what that photographer did lol.

I really don't want my camera confiscated. Can I just be like no? I'm pretty sure they have no right to do that, but I've had threats before. I'm really sensitive, too, so if I got told to stop by someone like a security guard who didn't know I've been told to take photos I'd probably cry lol.

I think also if you portray someone in an unflattering way you can be taken to court if there's no release signed. A lecturer at uni (Ryuzo Nishida) took photos at a club of drunk girls with white chocolate dripped on their faces, so it looked like semen. A couple of the girls saw them and tried to sue him but he won because they signed a release. I looked for some images but there are none sad

I think he exhibited it when he was at uni at one of our exhibitions so that may be why.

Yeah, that would be understandable because they need to pay for them to be there, the stars. I wouldn't do that, but there will always be antsy security that I'm apprehensive of...

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 04:03 pm

jpwise wrote:: More info on the case that Static mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nussenzweig_v._DiCorcia

I didn't read the whole article, but that was the Jewish guy who sued him, right?

By Static. 12/06/10, 04:06 pm

Well, you might have difficulty in this profession if you don't learn your rights and stand up for them. All you need to do is know what you can and can't do, and just go in and do your thing. Simple!

By Mischa. 12/06/10, 04:11 pm

umbraphotography wrote:: I think also if you portray someone in an unflattering way you can be taken to court if there's no release signed. A lecturer at uni (Ryuzo Nishida) took photos at a club of drunk girls with white chocolate dripped on their faces, so it looked like semen. A couple of the girls saw them and tried to sue him but he won because they signed a release.

I think what your lecturer did was unethical - every photographer I know makes a point never to take/show pictures that make the subject uncomfortable. What an warped bat-fowling horn-beast

By umbraphotography. 12/06/10, 04:17 pm

Static wrote:: Well, you might have difficulty in this profession if you don't learn your rights and stand up for them. All you need to do is know what you can and can't do, and just go in and do your thing. Simple!

I do know most of my rights, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, because I know how emotionally I react to certain situations, and I'd like to take every measure, without not doing it, to make sure I don't screw it up for myself, as I'm stupidly sensitive. Before you say again how I'm going to find it hard being like that in this profession, I'm trying to fix it, but it's not going to get fixed by me sitting on my butt not taking photos.

My lecturer... he's a really nice guy and all, but I do agree with you. I don't think what he did was ethical, considering most of the girls were under the influence of alcohol and at least tipsy.

I have issues with a lot of my lecturer's work actually. I looked on the website, and they'd had an exhibition. Out of the 19 lecturers who exhibited, 12 appropriated other people's work, pretty much, as is. Yeah, they credited them most of the time, but I don't consider that to be art. Don't even get me STARTED on conceptual art lol. And I'm just like omg is THAT what they're wanting us to produce??? Other people's art?

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