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Cosplay Photography Etiquette

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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By lilapmedia. 06/04/10, 03:11 pm

guest18 wrote:
majority of the cosplayer in new zealand doesnt know how to pose but very good in technical knowledge of cosplaying

while majority of the cosplay prop and costume is nice and amazing the person who is wearing it is ... well let just say still much improvement can be make ?

not many photographer, majority of them are also ... let just say there is much to improve?
check out hexlord singapore before flaming me. my photography still need improvement anyway

the event is too cramp, I cant use my 50mm to the fullest potential.

Wow this is really not what a true photographer looks at when we take photos.

As you would all know that Static and I are passionate about our photography and have turned it into our businesses, as part of the Photography & Media team, my job is to go around and ASK cosplayers/public for photos.

This gives them the chance to prepare/remove items that they are carrying to make the photo look good.

Poses does not really matter for me as since I have a very small knowledge of anime/characters, any pose is fine and I am very great full that I got to take their photo.

seraphik wrote:
to be honest, often people don't pose because other people just ninja photos without really asking. after being to an american con, i find it kinda rude for people just to take photos without asking the cosplayer first... after us spending so long/so much money on costumes, the least we can ask is for the chance to arrange ourselves nicely for the camera.

I find it rude of myself if I take a photo without asking, I mean its like the paparazzi then posting the photos of you unprepared and make you look ugly as.

seraphik wrote:
just because you have a camera doesn't mean you automatically possess the right to take a photo. i'm not trying to be a smarmy wrench or anything, but objectively? there are a number of reasons for cosplayers to reject having their photo taken. maybe they don't feel comfortable/think their costume looks right or good enough, maybe they're on their way somewhere else, maybe they're eating.

but if they reject a photo, they should do so politely. on the flipside, if asking for a photo, it should be done politely.

This is true in some form but depending on the event, a "real" photographer can take any photos without asking you first. I have been to many events where my pass says that I am allowed to take any photos I want and do what I want with those photos...

My team and I talked about how we could make a magazine and put peoples heads on naked bodies and we would not get in trouble because it was part of the rules of the Venue/Event... but we're not that sick Very Happy

As for people dressed up... yes I agree that people are camera shy and if they say no politely then I am more than happy not to take a photo.

Hey I'v been rejected LOTS of times if they say no... then its a no! Just like Duckeh at Day 3 Very Happy >.<

Luluz_luv wrote:
i think the photographers do an amazing job, they work all day so we get nice pics.
you dont HAVE to have your photo taken im sure a no thankyou would be sufficient.
considering alot of people go onto the photographers websites and take/copy the pictures for free.

You have no idea how hard our job is... you would think going to the events for free and take photos is easy... it's not... well not really...

When we get home we have to go through the photos, sort out bad photos and if there are anyone in those photos doing the fingers or anything inappropriate then we delete or not upload. We have to then go through red tape and make sure it is ok to post online then that's it.... LOL

Static wrote:
I also stongly disagree with animemay's comment about it being rude to refuse a photo. We're not getting paid to be there, and although it is a public event, thus giving you the right to photograph anyone you want, it is NOT rude to politely refuse. It is however rude to accuse cosplayers of refusing on purpose just to make you feel bad.

I would also like to throw in another point of etiquette for photographers. If you happen to be in the same place as a group of cosplayers being photographed by someone else, by all means ask if you can join in - but taking photos over the shoulder of the other photographer? Not physics cool. If the cosplayers don't mind, then fine - but please make sure everyone knows what the physics is going on. It is only polite.

I agree with Static especially the part where if your taking photos of the other photographers/work.

(Talking about Photographers Work)I have to admit that I have done this in the past but have NEVER uploaded them online ever, I only take photos after they are done or walking away with them knowing I am taking a photo of them and if they say delete it then I will. Not that hard really.

I have however have taken photos of photographers but only by asking them so that they would know I am taking a photo and uploading them. Sometimes I do surprise photos of Photographers but they never end up online Very Happy

Statics cosplay shoots are magnificent and I admire her work wishing I have the skills to do the work she produces.

I got so peed off at the people standing in my way to take photos of the Cosplay shoot outside! Didn't manage to take a photo WITHOUT a camera in the way of my camera. I should have just shunted them out of the way but I asked instead and they still did not move T_T

Well this has been the longest post I have ever typed on CNZ i think...

Correct me if I am wrong about anything I said above as I might have misunderstood some of the things people are saying *Im Asian*
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Suixelo. 06/04/10, 03:24 pm

I think respect is the underlining issue here. Have respect for the cosplayer, have respect for the photographer, have respect for the venue and have respect for the official photographers.

Have respect for yourself and know it's ok to say no <3

Ooze peace and love guys! Lets not make cosplay srsbsns in New Zealand, lets make it fun and rewarding for everyone involved. We're not the US, we don't need that dramu sugar honey iced tea ;3
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Guest. 06/04/10, 05:01 pm

Static wrote:
I also stongly disagree with animemay's comment about it being rude to refuse a photo. We're not getting paid to be there, and although it is a public event, thus giving you the right to photograph anyone you want, it is NOT rude to politely refuse. It is however rude to accuse cosplayers of refusing on purpose just to make you feel bad.

FYI - I dont think you read my post properly. It was in context to someone saying they get annoyed with people taking photos without permission. I was merely presenting a case why photographers might behave this way.




Quote :
there
are a number of reasons for cosplayers to reject having their photo taken.
maybe they don't feel comfortable/think their costume looks right or good
enough, maybe they're on their way somewhere else, maybe they're eating.

but if they reject a photo, they should do so politely. on the flipside, if
asking for a photo, it should be done politely.


Yes, I'm
not disagreeing with whats been said but I'm just trying to give a different
perspective and reason why photographers might do what they do.

(I agree with Pura's view they should at least be courteous to explain
why they refuse a photo mostly when the reasons not so obvious or else we feel
a bit ridiculous).





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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Static. 06/04/10, 10:37 pm

Animemay, this is what you said (excerpt):
Quote :
It takes a bit of courage to ask and to be turned down is not a pleasant feeling so thats probably why some of them do it.

That is EXACTLY what you said. If you didn't mean it, fine; but that is what you posted. Don't be surprised that people are offended, you just accused people of turning you down to make you feel bad. Also:

Quote :
(I agree with Pura's view they should at least be courteous to explain
why they refuse a photo mostly when the reasons not so obvious or else we feel
a bit ridiculous).

It is not a cosplayer's problem if a photographer feels ridiculous. Courtesy is good, yes, on both sides - but if a cosplayer has just been harassed by someone else, or is in a generally foul mood, and say no in a way that's less than polite, that is still their right. Whether it makes someone else feel embarassed or not is NOT THEIR PROBLEM. We're not getting paid, and although we expect to be photographed, we have every right in the world to say no, and the only obligation to be polite is a societal one - not a legal one.
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By sakuramiyabi. 07/04/10, 12:43 am

It would also help if the photographer or person requesting the picture cold read the PTO (place time occasion)

I seriously doubt a cosplayer would like to have his/her photograph taken while his/her makeup is obviously being applied ...
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Mischa. 07/04/10, 01:05 am

@anime If you are going to be a great photographer of people, you need people skills. If you are too shy to ask, and get upset over rejections your work will suffer. A wildlife photographer researches animal behaviour - you must research people behaviour.

Static and Lilap are both confident and outgoing and this REALLY helps. A good photographer has to be able to coax a shy person into being comfortable, deal with a drunken best man and get a weeping toddler to smile. it's not easy!
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Guest. 07/04/10, 11:14 am

Mischa wrote:
@anime If you are going to be a great photographer of people, you need people skills. If you are too shy to ask, and get upset over rejections your work will suffer. A wildlife photographer researches animal behaviour - you must research people behaviour.

But I do ask. I'm just trying to defend the other bunch that dont.

static wrote:
That is EXACTLY what you said. If you didn't
mean it, fine; but that is what you posted. Don't be surprised that
people are offended, you just accused people of turning you down to
make you feel bad. Also

But I'm not saying what they did was intentional, I just personally find it rude. And regardless of the reason I am entitled to feel this way. Just like you said it's not a cosplayers problem to make me feel ridiculous. Well it's not my problem if people find what I say offensive because it's my opinion. Anway, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking this. I've talked to many other nice people who feel this way. Someone has to speak on behalf of other follow photographers, and if I have to well then be it.
NB: cosplayers know what they are getting themselves into when they dress up. If you dont like people ninja photos well tough luck because that is what comes with the "trade" so to speak.

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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Guest. 07/04/10, 02:06 pm

Oh shock, someone gets upset by being told "no".

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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Cactiberry. 07/04/10, 02:15 pm

animemay wrote:

NB: cosplayers know what they are getting themselves into when they dress up. If you dont like people ninja photos well tough luck because that is what comes with the "trade" so to speak.

Why do you think people cosplay, especially in New Zealand?
Pretty much every cosplayer I know (gross generalization) does it PURELY for fun/for the COMMUNITY. A lot of us don't do it for the photos, and we don't consider it part of the "trade", and it shouldn't be expected of us to bend to the will of anybody who wants to photograph us (heck, even to GET photographed). Sure, it's a bonus and a good way of recording memories, but what you're saying offends even me (And don't get me wrong - I'm really new to the cosplay scene myself and still a complete n00b) and especially what you said about "cosplayers know what they are getting themeselves into when they dress up." was actually pretty offensive. What we're getting ourselves into? For the majority of us, cosplay is just for FUN. As a HOBBY. Really, it's just one of MILLIONS of things people can do to set themselves apart from the 'norm'.
Bah. I probably didn't make much sense. But. Yeah. >>
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Static. 07/04/10, 02:19 pm

Animemay: Nobody's disputing a person's right to take photos without asking. It is a public event, and people who dress up should expect to be photographed. Asking is a courtesy, and helps make better photos all round, but hey; people can do whatever they want. That's a given, and nobody's argued that point. And while you may say you're speaking on behalf of fellow photographers, there are at least two in this thread who disagree completely with what you're saying.
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By neimhaille. 07/04/10, 02:53 pm

At a public place you are free to take photos of whomever you like wherever. There are stalker laws in place (though good luck in getting that sorted...) and guides about offensiveness but generally everyone is fair game and that includes you too photographers ;)
http://hellophoto.co.nz/showthread.php?t=1954
http://www.otago.ac.nz/law/oylr/2007/Knewstubb.pdf

Regardless of how I feel about it (as a trained performer we really covered the issues of giving control of your likeness to others such as photographers and agents and commercial companies) that is the basic fact. And it is not limited to cosplayers.


That said however if you as a photographer want a good photo as opposed to a photo it is up to you to make sure the subject is ready. You are in control of the instrument and it is you who makes or breaks a good photo. Unless a subject deliberately goes against what you suggest that is ;) Or someone breaks into frame, oy. And there are times there is just no way to get that shot you want. I know.

I have utmost respect for good photographers and I know just how much work goes into it. This is why I don't share many photos I take except the occasional cat portrait or macro that happens to have a cute subject or actually has photographic merit ;) I have a few, very few but I do know what makes them good and what doesn't- and that means choosing my angles and positioning the objects when possible to get maximum benefit.
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Static. 08/04/10, 01:44 am

Yep. And that is why just pointing a camera does not a photographer make.
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Highlander. 08/04/10, 03:05 pm

Static wrote:
Good photos can also be taken on cheapo cameras - if you don't know how to use a big fancy one, then they'll probably turn out worse!

Yeah. Mine has more zoom than I think Static and Hide will probably ever have on them. But the camera has to work harder to adjust focus, etc, and under crappy con lighting .... Then it also blows the ISO settings out, and sometimes the shutter speed. So blurry grainy images.

Also don't seem to have as wide an angle as lots of other cameras, so have to stand further back, not good in a con. People kept coming closer, and I have to say to step back.

Nazgul wrote:
Mischa wrote:
It's usually a good sign when the photographer is kneeling, crouching or climbing up a ladder!

yes yes, I perfectly agree! it means they're trying to get a good angle of the cosplayer to make them look much better~ 8D

There are two shots, when I finish uploading my photos. One is of a young kid in a .Hack outfit, posing confidantly, shot from further back. One is of an equally young kid, shot closer up, kneeling at his eye level. Not posed as he was shy. (Taken with his and Dads permission of course.) Both are fine, but very different.

[quote="Static"]
Another thing that can really help make a photo pop is going for something other than the standard full-length-lots-of-background-shot. Going for a slightly different angle on a waist-up or chest-up shot can be a lot more interesting. You don't get as much detail of the costume overall, but if the cosplayer's in character there's a lot that can be conveyed with just half a body, or just the face.[quote]

My best shot at any Geddon is ChCh 2010, of Cadet-Queer. It does not really show the cosplay, it is a candid head shot of two of them. She disagrees though.

Pura wrote:
Well, when we're on stage, there's hardly any time to keep changing pose, and if we were changing half the time, half the photos would be of people's blurred movements.

Well as long as you have a minute I would say two or maybe three poses would be good. Get into a pose and stay there for 10 seconds at least before changing.
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Keysha-chan. 08/04/10, 05:21 pm

Highlander wrote:
Well as long as you have a minute I would say two or maybe three poses would be good. Get into a pose and stay there for 10 seconds at least before changing.

A minute or two? XD 30 seconds tops, usually. They have a lot of cosplayers to get through, after all!
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Static. 09/04/10, 12:37 am

...I think it's closer to five...I tend to want to get offstage as soon as possible, and I managed three sec at Chch, which was juuuust enough time for some people and not enough for others. A minute is just not feasible! Two or three poses WOULD be good - but there isn't really time.
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By angellsnz. 09/04/10, 01:40 am

If you can count up to 5 hippopotumuses then you are doing well. When you pose on stage it allllllllllwaaaaaaaaaays feels much longer than the reality of watching from the audience.

*note to self* Remember to mark a big X on the stage for cosplayers to stand and pose from. Also remind cosplayers they can take up to 10 seconds on the stage posing.
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By jpwise. 09/04/10, 02:31 am

angellsnz wrote:
If you can count up to 5 hippopotumuses then you are doing well. When you pose on stage it allllllllllwaaaaaaaaaays feels much longer than the reality of watching from the audience.

*note to self* Remember to mark a big X on the stage for cosplayers to stand and pose from. Also remind cosplayers they can take up to 10 seconds on the stage posing.

Second this. 5 seconds minimum is a good timeframe to grab a couple of shorts. Also the X on stage would be good, preferably away from the speaker boxes blocking the front view. Very Happy
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By JVCA. 09/04/10, 03:39 am

And actually - if some kind of light could be focused on the X during the pre-con set up, then that would be good too - might help with the lighting issue, though it could be a bit harsh. :3
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By azeria. 09/04/10, 01:18 pm

There's nothing rude about refusing a photo. I did one day because I was finally eating food and the people were fine and I just went on down once I was finished to have a photo taken.l

You can't complain that people 'don't know how to pose' when you are just taking photos of them as they hang out.
Especially whilst also saying' pretend I'm not here.'

Surprisingly enough, I don't pose whilst walking around/talking with friends.
>_<
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Guest. 09/04/10, 05:52 pm

yeh, I'm kinda over it now Cosplay Photography Etiquette - Page 3 711668 I think everything just got blown way outta proportion. I just want to make peace. Cosplay Photography Etiquette - Page 3 501139 Though the debate was semi-fun while it lasted Cosplay Photography Etiquette - Page 3 94682

A bit off topic but I didnt know Shizuka (famous cosplayer on Deviantart) was the Serah cosplayer I photographed at the event! I was like OMG. Theres so many fakes on the web, I just assumed the person who posted the FFXIII link in the photo gallery was another one of them. Oh how wrong I was. Cosplay Photography Etiquette - Page 3 309876

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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Huntress. 13/04/10, 06:55 pm

I think that Cosplayers need to understand that when you dress in costume (especially when you put on the level of work we do) people want to take photos of you. This is a VERY high compliment.

You may not be comfortable with having loads of photos, but it is part and parcel of dressing up. I think the people who understand this find it a lot easier to deal with the attention.

Another point>>> Most people are not intentionally rude (REMEMBER that human nature is to be selfish) and other people ninja-ing photos may just be general members of the public too shy to ask.

Also - in defence of ninja's photos. I have a younger brother who likes to take photos of me dressed up or in general and whenever I pose the photos are ok - but when he ninja's them they actually turn out amazing.
It is good to remember that people do not set out at these events to take bad photos of you (and some people NEVER like their photos anyway). But also that often the person behind the lens often sees something you don't. There is a beauty when people have their guard down which often translates better into photography than poses.
However, key character poses are also good.
An idea is to get someone to take a few photos of you in character-specific poses and see how they turn out - may also help you feel more comfortable at the event.

And BREATHE - we're not celebrities, only a handful of people know who we are and are generally our friends and not going to make cruel comments. The event is designed by the organisers to support you and your costuming and the photographers taking your photos IS a high compliment.

Be try to smile and try to take it in your stride =) cheers
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By JVCA. 14/04/10, 03:56 am

You're ignoring half the argument though - we're not talking about people saying no because they're camera shy, we're talking about people saying no for a good reason - eg., a photo RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW would cause a crowd traffic jam, and you don't want to piss security off, or I'm in the middle of eating (call me vain, but I can't imagine cosplayer OR photographer appreciating a photo of me with a cheeseburger jammed into my mouth), or being in a hurry to get somewhere - like the competition judging! All of these are reasons I've had to turn down photos before. As for ninja photos - it's a respect thing. Maybe you don't know how to pose to make you look good, but I know I know how to pose to flatter myself, so the photos where people have actually asked me are always the ones that turn out better in a con environment. Plus, it links back to that eating thing - at any given moment I might be trying to fix my hair/contact lense/wedgie/be blowing my nose - I don't want you to get a photo of that, and do you really want to look at a photo of that either...? (...I really, really hope not)
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Mischa. 14/04/10, 04:13 am

There is a difference between a ninja shot and a candid one.

I can say without hesitation that most of us adore having our photo taken and appreciate all the effort that comes with editing and uploading. Photographers we love you! We just like being treated like people not "things".


Last edited by Mischa on 14/04/10, 04:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling!)
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By JVCA. 14/04/10, 04:40 am

Amen to that!
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Re: Cosplay Photography Etiquette
Post By Guest. 14/04/10, 12:26 pm

JVCA wrote:
You're ignoring half the argument though - we're not talking about people saying no because they're camera shy, we're talking about people saying no for a good reason - As for ninja photos - it's a respect thing(...I really, really hope not)

I dont think she missed the point. What we were saying is:
1. Ninja photos take place for the following reasons: shyness of the camera guy/girl, their desire to get natural photos rather than typical camera smiles or poses or having had a bad experience e.g. being refused numerous times they decide to engage in ninjaing activities. (Which technically are good reasons. So like cosplayers have good reason photographers may do as well.)

2. You said it's a respect thing. Well, thats exactly what we were talking about. We were saying in the defence of most photographers if they are NOT given a reason to get rejected than they will never respect you and the ninjaing will continue. If you dont respect them then they wont respect you. I mean yeah if you were eating than duh, it's kinda the photographers own stupidity of asking then.
BUT I cannot accept that all photographers are at fault. You have to evaluate how this behaviour might have surfaced. You have to see the cause and effect.

Guest
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