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Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames

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Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Lowkey. 21/09/10, 07:12 am

Although it may seem to you that I am some random stranger asking a dumb question in an attempt to freeload off the combined knowledge and opinions of the CNZ community, I am in a fact a long time on/off lurker. This doesn't excuse the freeloading. But lurkers are just members who you don't know if you'll like them or not, right?

I'm currently studying creative writing at Whitireia Polytechnic and am in my second year. For my Contextual Studies component I have to write an essay worth 1.5k words and my chosen subject is videogame storytelling. The one sentence summary is “comparing and contrasting the creative writing techniques between the mediums of videogames and novels”. I Have To Get A Good Grade By Using Obnoxious English for how is videogame storytelling different from storytelling for a novel?

Feel like taking part in an debate re: the importance of plot and character development in games? Want to help me with my project? Interested in the way a game tells a story compared to how a novel does it?

What are your opinions on videogames stories? Do you think they're not important, or of tantamount importance? What's your favourite videogame story? What do you think are the major differences, besides the interaction aspect, between, say, Final Fantasy VII and Paradise Lost? How about videogames based on books or films? New games like Heavy Rain that are very much about the story? Multiple endings? Character development – especially RPG-types where main characters don't talk and have very little concrete personality so that we can project ourselves onto them? Do you think that without a story a game fails its purpose? What about abstract or art games?

I want to talk about the storytelling specifically in Armored Core 4: For Answer, Final Fantasy VII, Gears of War 1 and possibly Halo Reach, talkin' about how AC4A and Halo have non-specific main characters while Gears and Final Fantasy have defined characters. AC4A has multiple endings; Reach and Gears are western and FF and AC4A are Japanese. FFVII has its spinoff series and its film, Halo ad Gears have their books and comics. Anybody think I'm missing a vital link in my comparative chain there? Should I add older games?

Due on Thursday, but it's a pet conversation starter anyway.


tl;dr version: please tell me your favourite videogame stories and why, tanks.



(Also, wasn't sure if this was a Misc or a Videogames subject, but since I'd like to stoke a serious debate about Videogames I chose the board of the same name. My bad if I miscalculated.)
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Nikopol. 21/09/10, 08:01 am

Two great examples that you might consider would be.

The Half Life Series.

For its storytelling style of not leaving the main characters first person view, nor him actually taking part in any dialogue, but being the most central character in the overarching story. It gives you a very interesting perspective that other mediums cannot give.



Early Bioware Dungeons and Dragons properties.

These games, namely Planescape: Torment have stellar ideas, stories and a narrative that no other games have really been able to match. The gameplay is pretty standard but the story is pretty much unmatched in its depth or ideas.


A lot of games have the major issue that a 'good' video game story would be very bland in any other medium of entertainment, but that is understandable. It is a game after all and it requires most of the time to be put into the gameplay itself, which is undoubtedly the reason most people play. Because of this i think Planescape: Torment really stands out that it isnt very run of the mill.


Edit: Adventure Games of old [and new? Sam and Max] are also great ways of telling a story from another interesting perspective that i definitely find enchanting. Visual Novels [are these a game though?] such as Umineko and the like are another very unique way of creating a narrative through gameplay.
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Guest. 21/09/10, 11:31 am

You're way too smart for a slow person like me, so sorry if this question is answered wrong. xD';

My favourite video game story, has to be Final Fantasy IX. At the beginning of the game, it may seem like a cheesy fairy tale with knights and princesses, or a childish Japanese anime because of the strange and off-planet character designs, but it has a real deep and passionate storyline, and really emotional. Final Fantasy IX's storyline asks deep and personal questions about life and why we live the way that we live, why do we exist ? What happens when we die ? It's really thought-provoking towards the player, and shows the player that the game it's more than what it looks like. Strange characters, and strange settings. Judging by the influence in IX, I would say that storylines in games are pretty important if the game wants to attach a emotional bond between the player and the video game, for more than just it being a "video game. "

Usually video games based on movies or novels are pretty sucky, like the Cat-woman that was based off the movie Cat-woman has sucky controls, bad camera, and just not that exciting. The PS2 game Charlies Angels was also pretty bad, it got a alot of negative backlash from players that were fans of the movie. However this may sound pretty laughable, but the Lion King and Aladdin games on the old Sega Mega Drive/ old Dos computer are really good. The Lion King has extreme difficulty, so fans young and old can enjoy the game, not to mention good graphics for it's time, good sound, and music. The Aladdin game is also pretty hard also, harder than the SNES version that was made by the company Capcom. But it has brilliant gameplay, and music. So guess that video games based on movies usually suck, unless you want to travel back in time and play some of the old Disney favorites. xD';

One of my favourite games is where the main character can't talk, and also Zelda. I'm not a huge fan of Zelda, but I'm sure that the main character Link can't say a word. In Chrono Trigger, the main character Chrono doesn't say a single word, but the game still manages to hold a impressive storyline together within the game. Another example would be the original Jak and Daxter game, Jak doesn't say a single word within the game, but the game still sold pretty well in the market.

Video game storylines are pretty important in something like a RPG like Final Fantasy or Star Ocean. But when it comes to a shoot-em- up game, or a fighting game, storylines are not really the main focus and the game is more for action and entertainment, unlike a RPG were storylines are pretty important, because then the game wouldn't have balance. I guess that the importance of the story, depend on the game and whether it's necessary to have a story, or not.

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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Madam Madhatter. 21/09/10, 11:48 am

I don't have time to fully answer your questions and discuss things now but:

Quote :
FFVII has its spinoff series and its film
Have you read the two novellas, "Case of Denzel" and "Case of Tifa", set in Final Fantasy VII's continuity, written by Kazushige Nojima and published in the book Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Prologue?
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Li-Bai. 21/09/10, 11:52 am

Madam Madhatter wrote:
I don't have time to fully answer your questions and discuss things now but:

Quote :
FFVII has its spinoff series and its film
Have you read the two novellas, "Case of Denzel" and "Case of Tifa", set in Final Fantasy VII's continuity, written by Kazushige Nojima and published in the book Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Prologue?
(Psst. There is also "Case of Nanaki/Red XIII", "Case of Shinra" and "Case of Yuffie". :B)

I will come back later.
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Madam Madhatter. 21/09/10, 11:54 am

Oooh! They made some more???
I missed that!
Must look for them!

By the way. If a good grade is important try reading some of these:
http://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar?hl=en&q=story+computer+games+compared+novels&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=0
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Admin. 21/09/10, 12:01 pm

Don't worry, this is most definitely in the right place. xD

A fantastic game, in my opinion, in terms of the way the story is told is Baroque. In this game you have to slowly unravel the story yourself, it's a Sisyphean task, and it's rather easy to get fed up with it though. Which is why it has crap reviews - HOWEVER - there are a select few people who really enjoy this game for its mysterious, intricate story, and the effort that goes into unraveling it. It's... hard to explain how the storytelling works.
"More of the plot is revealed as the protagonist dies and restarts. Certain story-revealing cutscenes and conversations will only occur if the player has died or by reaching the bottom of the Neuro Tower and starting over."

I like that the story isn't handed to you on a silver platter, all plain and obvious.

I'd say an example of bad storytelling is FFXIII - I enjoy the game and all, but the idea is that you're supposed to continuously refer the the datalog to learn about WHAT YOU JUST DID. There's a lot of things that you won't pick up unless you read the datalog, which just seems dumb to me. I mean, I didn't want the game so that I could read my way through it. xD It seems a waste of those fantastic graphics if they're just going to go: "HERE'S A BOOK, READ IT."

...my apologies if I misinterpreted.
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Zeorymer. 21/09/10, 12:09 pm

Firstly, storytelling in videogames is vastly superior IMO to novels because every action the player makes advances the plot. Sure, I can read a good book, but that book has a finite amount of experience contained within it. A videogame allows me to deviate my player character(s) off that path a bit to do whatever I want within the confines of their own world.

My favourite stories within videogames would be;

Freespace 2 (Volition Inc, 1999)
In the final mission for the campaign, The Shivan destroyers are causing the Capella Star to go supernova (nobody knows why). The last 3 convoys are escaping through the Capella-Vega jump node, being harrased by hordes of Shivan fighters from aforementioned destroyers.
As the player, you get outfitted as usual in a single fighter of your own choice, but the actual mission for this is up to you. There is no mission briefing. You know that in about 12 minutes that star will go supernova, killing you and anyone else left in the system at the time. What do you do?
The player is given absolute free reign over this mission, which is opposite to the entire campaign before it. You can jump out through the node at the beginning of the mission, and be a decorated hero. You can fight off the shivans and save as many transport ships as you can and jump out a bit later.
You can even fight them off forever (endless enemy respawns) until the star goes supernova and you die with it. You become a posthumous war hero.
And the game doesn't punish you for picking either option. You can get the decorated hero ending where you fought off the Shivans bravely, or get the rousing speech praising you efforts trying to keep as many civilians alive as possible until your death. Both endings are GOOD. It's completely up to the player how they want to fight that final stand.
And all the time while you play this mission, more and more destroyers appear in the background towards that star.
It's epic. And that's not to mention all the times you fight alongside gigantic battleships shooting their huge laser beams at each other to remind you just how small your fighter is compared to the war. And that flying through them is insta-death.

Most games though I'm against multiple endings. It's a really terrible way to try and get re-playability out of the game, because we already know how many endings are canon, and that's the one we aim for. Multiple endings really don't do anything to enhance story or gameplay for me.

Other than Freespace 2, my favourite game is Umineko no Naku Koro ni, because it's a mystery with no solution (yet). It's a story without a resolution, so the actual playing comes from the meta of the story - the readers trying to solve the story with each other. And music DEFINITELY evokes atmosphere much more powerfully than a silent book.
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Lowkey. 21/09/10, 01:48 pm

@Zeorymer – I'm not sure I agree that games are superior to novels in terms of storytelling, but I think they present an entirely different type of story and pose an entirely different challenge to write for. Of course, I haven't written a videogame before and I get the sense that a lot of videogames have plots that are written more by a team than by a single person sitting down with Final Draft 7 and their Courier New font, but god knows I've thought about it. I think you're right in that videogames are interactive and, in a lot of ways, you can chose how much or how little you take from one.

Which leads nicely into what Admin mentioned about Baroque. I personally haven't played it, but I've watched Sweet Georgia play it. I love it. When you walk in to the chamber where God is and she's repeating don't go crazy don't go crazy. The replaying aspect of going up/down that goddamn tower every ad infinitum is something you can't replicate in a novel. Nobody wants to read the same story again and again with more detail every time. Also yeah, sound and music, but for the purposes of only 1.5k words that's something that also comes in with film and television.

Same in For Answer: it might make an action anime or CGI, but you couldn't put that much combat into a novel – but it's it's got an amazing plot. And what interests me about it is the same with Baroque – how much attention you have to pay to get the full depth of the story, to figure out for example who Thermidor is.

I guess there's a massive gap between what is a good plot, and then what is a good plot for a videogame. There's certain criteria you need to meet for the game to be playable. SGB and I were discussing if Space Invaders or Asteroids or those early, early games counted as “stories” - I think 99% of games must have some sort of creative story or at least setting unless they're like, Tetris.

Uh, wall of text, no real content. I guess what would be the most useful to me, and of the most interest, are “writing techniques” like character development (say, Zack Fair), three act plot structure (say Gears of War), strong dialogue that moves a plot (Armored Core). Hero's Journey, if you're feeling like giving plot a name.

Thanks for all the replies - they're helpful as. Talk amongst yourselves, kids.


Last edited by Ithurial on 22/09/10, 06:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : jesus ithy learn to type coherently woman)
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By RegnieRiku. 13/11/10, 04:14 am

Hmm quite an old thread but I'll give my 2 cents if you still need opinions.

To me plot development is the 2nd most important thing in a video game. The first being gameplay. However I think that the type of narrative and the way it is woven into the story is extremely debatable between people.

My main example here is Final Fantasy games. I constantly see various forms of them used as examples, but personally I can't find the plot with multiple playthroughs and a fine tooth comb. When I talk plot or narrative, I'm talking original. If the story is emo kid saves the day by accepting the help of people who care for him, and faces his inner demons to confront the final boss... That is not a cleverly woven narrative. That is the same plot that 90% of RPG's have been using for at least 15 years.

The best games are those that tell the story without cutscenes. No I don't mean the ones that show you things through notes you find lying around because I think that is extremely lazy storytelling. I mean games that simply have the characters talking to eachother as they move through the world. Making observations about areas they enter and how those areas interralate both to eachother and the current objective of the player character. Dead Space was a great example of this. The plot wasn't amazing but it was told without forcing the player to sit and watch it be told. You learned the entire fate of the crew of the doomed ship, your teammates, and how what did it all actually did it all, all without cutscenes.

On the good plot in general or good plot for a video game topic, I believe once again it's all in the execution. Any plot could be used in a video game. If one isn't particularly epic or you as the writer think people won't understand? Make it a sub plot for a side quest in a open world RPG. There is a place for everything and more developers are starting to appreciate this, and assign story importance accordingly.

Final thought. How are we going to approach getting the FPS developers to understand the importance of a coherent story?
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Husky. 13/11/10, 06:54 am

Gameplay makes the games, story telling advances the game to make it more playable.

Story telling in games makes it more interesting and it keeps the players wanting to know more about the games universe.


Such as Grandia. You have a dorky adventurer wannabe who meets awesome people and goes on a journey to save lala land.
The players understand the dilemma the characters are in, they un derstand there is more to the story that what is shown and they see more to this world than what the introduction has told us.

Then you have games like Azure Dreams which almost has no story, instead you make up your own playing the game. Its fun at first but you begin to question why your even playing it when there's nothing more to see. Sometimes you feel unsatisfied playing games with no story telling or advanced game play.


Im a writer myself. Best thing to do when you're writing is to look out for the everday cliches and not over do them.
Dont over use the super power story telling to much, it makes the story lack luster when everyone can do magic.
Dont make your characters to young, add some older and stronger people to make people want to see the main characters to be as strong and cool as these older ones.

Em, Yeah.
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Re: Let's Talk About Stories in Videogames
Post By Lowkey. 16/11/10, 12:57 pm

Husky wrote:
Im a writer myself. Best thing to do when you're writing is to look out for the everday cliches and not over do them.
Dont over use the super power story telling to much, it makes the story lack luster when everyone can do magic.
Dont make your characters to young, add some older and stronger people to make people want to see the main characters to be as strong and cool as these older ones.
Kudos, sweetheart, but that's the kind of thing I worked out for myself being a pretentious-fiction-fag and all.

Can upload finished 1800 word essay for anybody curious, but it's quite a lot of bullshitting and not a lot of interesting.

@Riku: Oho, the Big Cutscene Debate. I'm not sure. They say the most important thing about a game is that the experience is immersive and that cutscenes jar us out of the experience, but I'm not sure. In lots of ways it would be lovely to play a game without the pause: to be able to continue to steer the character through the world while stuff is going on around them, but I think that some stories might not be able to be told that way. Is gaming the right medium for those stories, then? Difference between a movie and a game? I don't know. Susan O'Connor, who wrote Gears of War 1 and Bioshock 1, says she thinks of gaming more as an experience than a story: an emotional experience. I guess it's a question of do we need to "be" the main character all the time to get that experience, or is it okay to be an observer sometimes? I guess it's the luxury of psychic distance that writers get, to be observer or observed. Show what they wanna show. See Metal Gear Solid: Guns of the Patriots: it has movie-length cutscenes. Bad game? Bad example of Game As Format?

Or uh, Splinter Cell: Conviction, in which thoughts and objects and memories print in words on surfaces around Sam Fisher. You can have a flashback while still "playing" in a lift. Gives you the inside of your character's head while you're playing. It looks like a game half way to cutting out its cutscenes, actually from what I've seen, with storytelling done through controlling cameras as an objective, "overhearing" plot dialogue, for example. Not 100% on the writing on the wall yet, don't know if I like it or not.

Halo Reach, last chapter, Lone Wolf. You play your last moments. You don't get the awesome moves unless they're programmed in for you to execute, but I felt like it made the scene stronger to be playing it "as" Noble Six. It still has a cutscene, though: not a long story-carrying cutscene, just some awesome moves. Is this hybridization not more effective than no cutscenes at all?
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